Over time I’ve been on the lookout for social media for family to use. I haven’t really found anything suitable, key thing is that posting photos and videos needs to be user friendly. For example, Friendica all but requiring you to upload your video to YouTube and post the embedded video is just not gonna fly.
I’ve seen Zusam in the past, which looks like it could become something but I don’t think it’s ready for me to try to get extended family into. (It’s worth mentioning here that certain extended family have shown interest in using something like this)
Recently I’ve had a look around at some Enterprise social solutions, and have had a play with HumHub. It has a much more familiar look, things are separated into spaces that are similar to Facebook groups, and while media uploads aren’t perfect I think they will work well enough.
HumHub has modules, many of which cost a decent amount of money, because they target the enterprise market. However, the community version is open source and the base features and free modules seem to work well.
Does anyone have experience using it? Any warnings I should know about? Any similar software that does a better job?
Argh! I’ve posted a similar question; basically, I want a private alternative to Facebook, with wall-like functionality. The second minimum requirement is that there be an iOS app that makes posting easy – including initiating a picture or video capture. So:
- #1: private, b/c it’s family sharing toddler pictures
- Also #1: super user friendly, because (100% - 1 person) involved are non-technical
- Also #1: has to have a better user tool than an SPA. No web interface can ever be anywhere as good as a native app can be, and I will die on that hill.
- #2: emoji reactions, and threaded comments
I’m not interested in installing and evaluating a dozen different servers, so like you I’ve been hoping that people with similar goals would narrow down the field a bit. There’s no way I’d convince enough of the family to go along with evaluating all of the options anyway, and IME what works fine for me can often fall apart when other people come onboard.
I’d convinced myself that Friendica – venerable, proven, reasonably popular – would fit the bill, especially because the design doesn’t assume public-by-default, like Mastodon or Lemmy, and the potential damage of exposed content, either through my misconfiguring the server, or some upgrade assuming users want everything public by default, is high. I’d prefer a project where the developers assume private-by-default, and invite-first. Lemmy isn’t really right, because we’re following people, not communities; Mastodon has a better model, following users, but then its conversation threading is kind of shit for this purpose, and its reaction feature set is anemic. Circles was perfect, and beloved by the key parent involved, until it first made half of her posts invisible to her (and only to her and her husband), and then locked her out. This doesn’t surprise me much, as Circles is based on Matrix, which frankly has the worst cryptography management I’ve even encountered. But if you’re saying Friendica is that painful to post media on, then it won’t work.
I’m leery of Humhub because of the quasi-commercial nature, and its youth. I’ve had too many experiences with initially semi-commercial platforms shifting, either suddenly or slowly, to increasingly commercial positions – moving features from the “free” to the “paid” column. Vendor lock-in is a real issue with a dozen users.
So if Friendica is out, maybe Pixelfed? It seemed to me to be mostly indistinguishable from Mastodon, but if they have better comment threading, reactions, and I need to re-evaluate the AP clients to see if any would be user-friendly enough for the parents. I’ve used mostly Fedilab, and I’m not sure it’s ideal. For one thing, it doesn’t have support more than basic reactions: you can boost or favorite, but I am – and I think you are probably – looking for something with more variety, like emoji responses, right?
I’m watching the other reactions here, and my post on this topic is here. I may post a summary – there are comparison charts, but they all tend to focus on feature set and fall short on the overall use case. On my thread,
- Misskey was recommended as Facebook-like, and in particular, some of its forks have features the core project is missing. I always got the impression Misskey was a Mastodon-analog, which would make it not a good fit, so I’ve skipped over it. With Friendica out, I’m going to put Misskey back on the “possible” list.
- Diaspora has also been recommended and is near the top of my list.
- Smithereen was recommended, but the sparsity of the documentation – not even a list of features – put it down low on my list.
- Hubzilla has a lot of documentation; it focuses a lot on content management – assets, calendars, document sharing, etc. – which will be fine if “easily post content to a feed” and “follow a user and view a stream of their posts” is a first-class interaction model.
- Pixelfed is still an option. I just need to confirm/refute my “Mastodon, with pictures” perception. If my perception has been skewed by the fact that I’m interacting with Pixelfed through a (mainly) Mastodon app, then maybe it’ll work. However, there isn’t AFAICT a Pixelfed app, so if the only way to get to a more wall-like view is through a web interface, it’s not going to work.
@acockworkorange@mander.xyz is also looking for this feature set / use case. I kind of feel as if it’s more useful to think about this as a use case, because almost all of these projects can claim some or all of the requested features, and yet not satisfy what we’re looking for in terms of user experience. This would be a great opportunity for another tool: a wiki with a list of applications & features, but with a discussion section and focused on winnowing projects by consensus about suitability. Again, lots of software that have the necessary functionality and which could be wrangled to do this, but still fail to be a good tool for the objective.
Edit
Probably not the best place to do this, because I’m the only one who can edit this, but:
I deleted the table, as it wasn’t rendering on some mobile clients. The table was re-created in CryptoPad.
I’ll go find a collaborative, wiki-like document thing with discussions that isn’t G**gle.Edit 2
The table is now here, as a CryptPad document. In an exercise of trust, it’s open to edits. If vandals wreak too much damage, I’ll restrict access, but that’ll require creating accounts and requesting access, and all that shiz.
Wow, good effort on that!
you can boost or favorite, but I am – and I think you are probably – looking for something with more variety, like emoji responses, right?
Honestly, this is low down on my list. Yes, it would be great, but I have had enough trouble finding something that handles uploading videos ok. Emoji responses are not a mandatory thing for me.
Pixelfed is an interesting suggestion. It always feels like it’s intended to be public. Were you thinking each user would have to configure default privacy settings? I can see how to restrict to followers but haven’t yet found how to stop anyone being able to follow you. I think for me, if a new user has to set up the privacy settings to stop them posting everything public, that’s probably not the right platform.
BTW there is PixelDroid as a dedicated Pixelfed app, but it’s only on Fdroid.
Thanks!
Agreed: some items are basic functionality that should reliably and easily work. Image & video uploading are among them. I’ll add some verbiage on the CryptoPad page about options which have been rejected simply because they don’t support the most basic features.
It’s funny: I’ve been similarly searching for a good chat platform, and there are two things which I personally don’t care much about, but which a couple of my family members are insistent about: typing notifications; and gifs - as in, a widget where you can search for short gifs from e.g. Gfycat and have them inserted. My wife absolutely requires the latter.
That being said, my position on emoji responses are almost a core feature for a social media platform IMO. They’re fast, easy, non-cluttering feedback, eliminating the need to type out some inane, two-word response. It’s infuriating (to me) that Lemmy doesn’t support them; it leads to such illuminating responses as “So much this!”, “Yes!”, but worst of all the lack subverts up/downvotes, which should be a tool for designating interest, not agreement. Not having emoji reactions muddies and dilutes any value voting has.
Pixelfed is an interesting suggestion. It always feels like it’s intended to be public. Were you thinking each user would have to configure default privacy settings?
You may be right. I think I read that post visibility was configurable; if I can narrow the field sufficiently I’ll start installing them and checking how they work. I do think federation would have to be disabled on any AP server.
I can see how to restrict to followers but haven’t yet found how to stop anyone being able to follow you.
Yeah, that would be a blocker.
I think for me, if a new user has to set up the privacy settings to stop them posting everything public, that’s probably not the right platform.
Agreed. The service must be at least configurable to be private-by-default.
BTW there is PixelDroid as a dedicated Pixelfed app, but it’s only on Fdroid.
I think I found an iOS app, too… but I looked at so many servers last night I may be misremembering.
The table isn’t rendering on my mobility client, so I’m going to delete it from the post; I’ll keep the CryptoPad document going as long as I can, but it’s open edit, and I’m hoping others will contribute to it.
We tried it and didn’t like the clunky UI.
We also tried Lemmy but it was a bit of a nuisance to maintain.
In the end we settled on a forum with a wiki.
We tried a few forums but in the end Flarum was the nicest, Just a bit of a pain to set the domain to be dynamic but it can be done with some PHP, alternatively, just use a reverse proxy with dnsmasq and wireguard pointing to that DNS.
As for a Wiki We have tried mediawiki, WikiJS And a couple others. I would recommend dokuwiki. (I hear good things about bookstack too).
I’ve tried Flarum in the past, but it really doesn’t handle media well. Just looking on the demo site now, no option to add a video, and to post an image you need to use markdown to add an image URL.
Is that different when it’s not the demo site?
There’s a plugin that does it, FoF or something, and then you can upload an image from your device and it’s pretty good. Some videos play others require downloading after uploading though.
Our family uses a post in flarum for a monthly feed and then moves a few of those images into a dokuwiki page with the gallery plugin.
Oh I should investigate the plugins.
With your family, do you have non-technical and elderly users participating and doing OK with it?
No, I don’t. And that’s going to be one of our big differences here. Everyone in my family is tech literate and knows at least a little bit of programming.
I would strongly suggest dokuwiki. It’s like having a forever Journal of Family affairs and I really like it. I know it’s not quite the social media aesthetic but in my experience I found it to be the thing that stuck.
I would argue against Mediawiki though. It may be more user-friendly for some family members, but the maintenance becomes a nuisance And pulling things out of the database involves half a dozen joins.
Even though dokuwiki editing is text in markup, It’s not a hard concept to grasp and the simplicity makes it feel more tangible which may be appreciated by older family members.
I personally have a Mediawiki set up that my wife and I have used for years, but it’s not something I want to share wider. I haven’t found it hard to maintain, though (I’m using the docker version).
How do you use the Dokuwiki? Do you create a page for each family event with pictures and videos and things? Then other people can go and have a look? What kind of organisation structure do you use? How do others learn that there is a new page to see?
Do you want this social media to be for your family to use only with family members or for them to use with family and beyond?
Revolt could be good as a local family group chat if you like the discord style. You’ve probably already tried it but Pixelfed/mastodon/misskey sound like the easiest to get family on board with and seem like they would be good family social media platforms IMO.
In my experience none of the federated platforms handle video well, especially the facebook like platforms. They are built around things being public, and expect you to upload to youtube or some other video site in order to post a video. If they let you upload videos at all, it’s as an attachment. Admittedly HumHub is a bit like that, but it’s not too janky from a user experience perspective.
One thing I liked about Zusam is the automatic resizing of videos to make them reasonably sized. If I record a 2 minute video, it can be 300 or 400MB. Zusam can be configured to resize the video to a set maximum size in order to make it more reasonable for people watching. HumHub doesn’t do this, but I have wondered if I could use a cron job and ffmpeg to do it.
Do you want this social media to be for your family to use only with family members or for them to use with family and beyond?
I haven’t decided yet. Initially we’d start with people who know our kids. But if some of those people wanted to set up a page for their own kids, they wouldn’t want some of the people on our page who they don’t know. And they might want people on their page that don’t know our kids. So then all the HubHub privacy settings come in handy where people can create a space and control who can see what.
Revolt could be good as a local family group chat if you like the discord style.
I don’t really think that’s something that will be familiar enough to people, especially grant parents and other family of that generation. And I don’t think a group chat is what I’m after, self hosting a group chat doesn’t seem to have many advantages over say a Signal group chat.
You’ve probably already tried it but Pixelfed/mastodon/misskey sound like the easiest to get family on board with and seem like they would be good family social media platforms IMO.
These are generally public, and even if you have it set up as a private instance with no federation then it still feels like a shouting at the void kind of platform. None of the family I have in mind use twitter or mastodon, but everyone uses facebook. So I’m aiming for that sort of a feel. But IMO Friendica is not something I feel is good enough yet from a user experience point of view, the same with Diaspora*.
I could never get mastodon to work with an app without using SSL.
I much prefer setting up a VPN and reverse proxy without having to deal with SSL. So it was really annoying not being able to use an app on the phone to connect to it.
Why not a private Lemmy instance?
I don’t think Lemmy is really a good format for this. Many of the users won’t be familiar with Reddit or forums, and it’s better suited to strangers ranking things with the votes. Facebook style I think works better for people who now each other, and especially when they are only familiar with facebook.
Man ive been looking for something like this for a long time and never found a suitable option.
Post i had before about this same topic.
Humhub wasnt a solution for me since most of my family uses iPhones and not having a dedicated app would confuse them.
I notice their website says they are working on releasing apps for Android and iOS by the end of 2023. I can find the Android one but not the iOS one :(.
Luckily most of my family uses Android.
Now you mention it, I remember seeing your post. Disappointing that you never found something. Was the lack of iOS app the only thing that put you off HumHub?
The lack of ios app deterred me from even testing it. I play tech support for my family enough to know an app would be necessary.
It really is an enterprise solution and I doubt your family will be happy with it.
Why not just set up a Snikket server and use that? You can easily create group-chats and share pictures and videos there and the interface is similar to WhatsApp.
The idea of a snikket server is good, but I feel it’s not much different that any other chat app. HumHub works on both mobile and desktop, and provides many features above a chat app. It’s more similar to Facebook groups (which people are already familiar with) but without the spying, whereas I don’t get the benefit of Snikket over say Signal.
What is it that makes it unsuitable for families? It seems to be pretty familiar feeling to people used to Facebook.
Since Snikket is just an XMPP server, it can be used with desktop apps like Dino as well.
All the corporate gamification feature are probably quite annoying.
All the corporate gamification feature are probably quite annoying.
I might have missed that. What features are you thinking about? I haven’t seen any points or badges or things like that?
Isn’t Snikket just a fork of Conversations for Android? It doesn’t look like it’s any better either.
Conversations+Prosody all the way.
Conversations says to purchase on the play store. I don’t think I’m gonna get good uptake it every user has to pay money.
Its free on f-droid
As someone who is concerned that users won’t be able to work out how to upload a video, asking users to install Fdroid seems a step too far.
It’s free on f-droid, though? https://f-droid.org/packages/eu.siacs.conversations/
Fdroid is not suitable for the average person. The average person can install an app from google play, but Fdroid is quite a jump in steps, not to mention all the warnings that Android gives them, all but telling them not to do it.
I wholly disagree with everything you just said, including that your friends and family by your own assessment are unable to rise above average skills. But you know them better than I do, of course 🤷
It’s simple enough for me. And many of the people who have grown up with technology can probably work it out. But there is a huge difference in effort between the two.
Say my 70 year old uncle (that does not live nearby) needs to install Conversations.
Fdroid version
Please go to this fdroid website. Click the button to download the APK. Now when you get a warning that you aren’t allowed to install software from this source for security reasons, click the button to take you to settings, then switch the toggle to allow from this source. There’s a message telling you that your phone and personal data are more vulnerable to attacks and you need to take responsibility for any loss of data that results from this, but just ignore that. Now once you’ve installed it please go and disable it. When someone messages you a link to an APK you should never, ever install it. That’s a common scam and it will put a virus on your phone. We need to reenable this setting so you don’t accidentally do that since a link can just start the download.
Next, please open the Fdroid app, and search for the Conversations app. For some reason I can’t send you a link because the fdroid website doesn’t seem to have an open in Fdroid button, I dunno why, maybe it depends on your phone or your browser, just search it up and make sure you install the right one.
Right, now when you click to install this, you’re gonna have to go through all the above stuff about accepting the security risk of losing all your data again, because it’s another app we are granting this permission to. Don’t remove this permission though, we’ll just leave this one open.
Installed that? Great, now depending on your phone it may or may not keep the app up to date so make sure you open Fdroid from time to time, click the button to update, wait for it to download the update, then tap the button to install and then tap the button to install (again). Make sure you remember to do this because security updates are important.
Now whenever you want to invite someone else in, make sure you send them these instructions so they don’t go thinking they have to buy the Play store app.
Compare this to the Play store version when it's a free app
Hey here’s a link, click it, and an app page will open in the store. Tap to install it.
Maybe we should agree to disagree, but I do not think I can just leave people to invite other people and sort it out on their own. I’m gonna be spending my days hand holding people. Maybe my family is dumber than average.
Your family isn’t dumber than average.
Uu tech folks tend to forget/overlook that most people are clueless as to how mobile devices work. I have IT friends who know practically nothing about the Android file system, or how apps store (but don’t sync) data, for example. And these are people designing/implementing/supporting complex systems.
Most people can’t be bothered if there’s more than one or two steps. I can’t walk my “70 year old uncle” through configuring an app on his phone, over the phone. The stuff he says he sees make no sense at all. I’m like “no, that’s not what you should see, what did you click on”?.
Hey there! HumHub sounds pretty promising for what you’re looking for. It’s great that it has that Facebook group-style setup since it’s something a lot of people are familiar with. The community version being open-source is definitely a plus too. I’d say give it a spin and see if your family vibes with it.
What I’m trying to avoid is on boarding a bunch of people to some platform then working out that it doesn’t work for us and having to get everyone set up on a new platform! I was hoping to hear from others who had tried it, or others who have other solutions that work for them.
